Villa Park

Just now, edinburghowl said:

The significance is MAGA stuff and any political memorabilia does not belong in a football stadium. It’s patently clear the message their fans are sending.

 

Maccabi and Israeli clubs should not be in UEFA competitions anyway. Geographically they are not in Europe, and given Russian clubs were correctly banned for their government’s war crimes, the same rules should apply to Israeli clubs. 

 

Interesting that you only mention Celtic too.
 

Should Rangers be banned for their songs?
 

Or are they ok because it’s the UDA and they’re ’British’?

Just to follow (follow) up on this and my previous post.

Of the Scottish clubs, its only really Rangers who have a negative reputation on mainland Europe. Most clubs are happy to have other Scottish clubs coming, when compared to many of the other potential draws (and yes yes, not just for the inevitable win haw haw).

28 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said:

Then why weren't Celtic banned last season with their pro IRA chants? The same IRA who bombed Birmingham? Trump flags, what's the significance of those?

It's because Aston has a strong Pakistani community and Mr Khan, a liberal democrat is up for re-election I believe at the end of October.

It's all party politics.

8 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

The significance is MAGA stuff and any political memorabilia does not belong in a football stadium. It’s patently clear the message their fans are sending.

 

Maccabi and Israeli clubs should not be in UEFA competitions anyway. Geographically they are not in Europe, and given Russian clubs were correctly banned for their government’s war crimes, the same rules should apply to Israeli clubs. 

 

Interesting that you only mention Celtic too.
 

Should Rangers be banned for their songs?
 

Or are they ok because it’s the UDA and they’re ’British’?

I don't remember Rangers playing their last season but Celtic did and there was local MPs petitioning for the game to be cancelled or fans to be banned but if Rangers fans are making hateful chants then they should be called out. Should our fans be banned from every ground because an idiot does something racist or hateful as we have found to have happened recently? No and neither should Jewish supporters.

27 minutes ago, Owl.1867 said:

 

Despite what the English think, Celtic generally have a pretty good reputation across Europe for how the fans travel. The only issues are usually when visiting clubs with a strong right-wing (read: neo nazi) supporter group.

 

When everyone else thinks that someone's sound, and you disagree (but agree with neo nazis), it's time to start looking inward.

Celtic had left a great impression when they played Ajax in Italy during pre-season

If you can't host away fans safely, it should be in a neutral venue. 

6 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said:

Celtic had left a great impression when they played Ajax in Italy during pre-season

The one where Ajax fans charged at barriers in the ground in order to get at the Celtic fans?

You're not going to budge, but the English football fan hatred of Celtic (which, let’s not mince words in this soon-to-be-deleted thread, is really just a veneer for a hatred of something else), blinds a lot of fans to the reality that Celtic have, by and large, a good reputation as traveling fans. As do all Scottish clubs aside from Rangers.

That doesn't mean there are never incidents, but lets just rewind to Wednesday fans booing of a guy who had a monkey gesture done at him, and the booing of those who made a gesture against racism. Or the fact that the smaller League One clubs absolutely hate it when either Wednesday or United are down there.

47 minutes ago, Anthndav said:

 

It's because Aston has a strong Pakistani community and Mr Khan, a liberal democrat is up for re-election I believe at the end of October.

 

It's all party politics.

He's an independent MP who intends to sit for Your Party when they get round to setting up.

6 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

He's an independent MP who intends to sit for Your Party when they get round to setting up.

 

 

Yes, I'm confused again as there is an identically named councillor for Aston under the Lib Dems.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/councillors/156/ayoub_khan

I'm really not having a good morning with info! Lol

11 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

He's an independent MP who intends to sit for Your Party when they get round to setting up.

 

 

Plot thickens! He's dual mandate so both an MP and a Councillor. 

Yes he's both but he's not a Lib Dem any more

1 hour ago, edinburghowl said:

Maccabi and Israeli clubs should not be in UEFA competitions anyway. Geographically they are not in Europe, and given Russian clubs were correctly banned for their government’s war crimes, the same rules should apply to Israeli clubs. 

Totally agree. There‘s been a recent push to ban Israel and Israeli clubs from participating in international competition because FIFA have a rule outlawing clubs playing in occupied territory, and there are six Israeli clubs currently playing in illegally occupied territory.
 

Also, as you point out with the Russia comparison, countries perpetrating genocide shouldn’t be allowed to compete in international sporting events. 

Anyway, the main point is that a lot of football clubs have racist, violent fans and they're not banned - or if they are they're banned by UEFA through proper process - so the defence that this is because of their past violence doesn't hold water for me.

The argument that Israeli clubs should be banned for non-sporting reasons is one that is worth having, but also irrelevant to this particular instance because West Midlands Police cannot (and should not) make that decision.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if any other clubs with violent fanbases get drawn to play at Villa Park any time soon. If WMP don't ban them too it's going to get pretty awkward. 

22 minutes ago, southportdc said:

Anyway, the main point is that a lot of football clubs have racist, violent fans and they're not banned - or if they are they're banned by UEFA through proper process - so the defence that this is because of their past violence doesn't hold water for me.

 

The argument that Israeli clubs should be banned for non-sporting reasons is one that is worth having, but also irrelevant to this particular instance because West Midlands Police cannot (and should not) make that decision.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens if any other clubs with violent fanbases get drawn to play at Villa Park any time soon. If WMP don't ban them too it's going to get pretty awkward. 

WMP's concern seems to be for the overall safety of the event due to wider protests, and not just violence by the MTA fans. It reads that they didn't have an issue with the football fans as such, more the concern of any protests against them by locals which would be totally uncontrollable in comparison!

24 minutes ago, southportdc said:

Anyway, the main point is that a lot of football clubs have racist, violent fans and they're not banned - or if they are they're banned by UEFA through proper process - so the defence that this is because of their past violence doesn't hold water for me.

 

The argument that Israeli clubs should be banned for non-sporting reasons is one that is worth having, but also irrelevant to this particular instance because West Midlands Police cannot (and should not) make that decision.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens if any other clubs with violent fanbases get drawn to play at Villa Park any time soon. If WMP don't ban them too it's going to get pretty awkward. 

Decisions like these will be made on a case by case basis. They’ve looked at it for this fixture and made a decision. 

The SAG are setup to make decisions like this and West Midlands Police have said publicly they cannot guarantee public safety if their fans attend. Given that it is these organisations responsibility to protect local residents and prevent violence they have made the correct call.

12 minutes ago, mattitheowl said:

 

WMP's concern seems to be for the overall safety of the event due to wider protests, and not just violence by the MTA fans. It reads that they didn't have an issue with the football fans as such, more the concern of any protests against them by locals which would be totally uncontrollable in comparison!

7 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

Decisions like these will be made on a case by case basis. They’ve looked at it for this fixture and made a decision. 

 

The SAG are setup to make decisions like this and West Midlands Police have said publicly they cannot guarantee public safety if their fans attend. Given that it is these organisations responsibility to protect local residents and prevent violence they have made the correct call.

I get that. What I'm saying is if it's 'we can't guarantee safety because these fans are too violent' then that's one thing. If it's 'we can't guarantee safety because these fans are too violent and Israeli', it's something else.

So if another club with a violent fan base that isn't Israeli comes to the West Midlands any time soon and aren't banned, it's going to be a bad look for WMP.