Hornsby

The first goal totally knocked the stuffing out of the fans. When you know that, in all likelihood, it's downhill from here, it's difficult to keep up your own enthusiasm. It's so easy to say that you have to keep the atmosphere going, but atmospheres are built on emotion. But the fans stayed with them, at times they tried to lift the players, but it's a culmination of the poo we've been through and the acceptance of the poo we're still in. I know plenty left early, but that's got to be better than getting on their backs which, other than the ironic cheers for Ugbo departing, the fans refrained from. People left because of the sheer pain of watching your team so helpless against your biggest rivals. It's sickening. We know brighter times lay ahead. Our time will come.

Copy & Paste Player Ratings: Horvath: 5 Palmer: 6 Iorfa: 3 M. Lowe: 4 Fusire: 4 Amass: 8 Valery: 6 Bannan: 7 Ingelsson: 6 J. Lowe: 3 Ugbo: 1 Cooper: 8 Cadamarteri: 6 McNeill: 5 Webb (ref): 5 (how did he miss that challenge of Lowe's in front of the North?)

We all are pal. I'm thinking, had we played the percentages today, we might only have lost 1-0. Nothing better than that. Just keeps the ball away from our goal a bit longer.

We're going round in circles, but my point is that it is easy to get the basics right ie don't play risky balls into limited players in dangerous areas. When you spend what seems to be the entire 90 minutes doing just that, and getting caught on the break again and again and again, you have to simply have to abandon that principle until you get the players who can play the way you want to play. Currently, the majority of our players are extremely limited and they're being asked to play in a way that they're simply not capable of. And a better side today would have got 7. The Blades of last year, for example.

Terrific explanation. Great point well made.

I'm not sure how much football you've watched this season, but the current Premier League leaders are long throw specialists who score the majority of their goals from set pieces. Their fans actually sing "set piece again, ole ole".

The difference being we'd got 11 men behind the ball when that happened. They had us a actually 6 v 3 today at one point today. I agree it's dinosaur stuff, but the ball is still round. A defender still has to deal with a ball played over his head. That'll ever change.

Absolutely. You have to have a plan for why you're doing what you do. Man City do it to draw in the opposition, but you need players with a high level of skill and intelligence to carry it off successfully. I'm convinced some teams play it out from the back "because City do it and it seems to work for them". Even Man U seemed to do it without any idea of why. My biggest bugbear - keepers playing it into midfield on the ground. If neither fullback is free to accept the ball, put your foot through it!!

Selling our soul by being more direct? Not many complained under Big Jack and Wilkinson (and even Megson). We played some nice stuff and had some success under Atkinson and Carlos, but playing football on the ground at all costs is hardly sown into the fabric of the club.

The Forest owner would be on the pitch after every match remonstrating with him about Ugbo.

Even if your only 3 available answers are Cadz, Lowe or Ugbo?

Cadamarteri. He's better than Ugbo and Lowe at everything. He'll run all day. Not with any great pace, but he'll pressure defenders facing their own goal and win things. At least it's a low risk plan that we can do - cos it's most basic form of the game. The more times we ask Iorfa to do something beyond heading it or launching it clear, the more often he'll make a mistake. And even if we don't have the players to play that way, it rather it trickle out and give the opposition a throw by their corner flag than gift them a 6 v 3 break on our goal.

Hopefully ny thrn we have new owners and we spend 1/2 billion in the January sales...

It was awful play, mate. But I don't think it comes from not caring or trying. Pressure does different things to different players. He obviously isnt a player who thrives in those situations, which is great when he's at the heart of your defence...

That's not a lack off effort. That's a lack of quality, a lack of awareness, a lack of composure... I can accept that. What I can’t accept is that we're asking players like that to play the ball around in those areas. Iorfa is limited, to say the least. Head things, clear things. Stick to doing that.