Owlsbornanbred

The age is certainly a factor with some of the players. Hunt a prime example who's legs have completely deserted him. Although I think theres a certain type of player we have too many of - players who have never in their career been a player who runs at full backs with pace and intent, and has a few tricks in their locker. We have too many players who get the ball and look to get rid without gaining us any territory up the pitch . It also leaves us in danger of getting pinned in our own box because we don't have a pacy/tricky player as an outlet. There are still players knocking about who are 30 yrs or over who can skin a full back or drive through the centre midfield, Moore just doesn't go for them. Jermaine Johnson still had pace and a could beat a man when he was 31/32. Unfortunately he just had absolutely no end product or decision making, but that aside he could get us 40 yards up the pitch when under pressure. What I've found very frustrating, among many other frustrating things, is that Moore sticks rigidly to a wing back system when we don't have any wing backs. We don't even really have any wingers, other than Marvin Johnson who has is too inconsistent and looks burnt out because of no real competition or backup for his spot. Wilks looks like he might be able to beat a man, but gets the ball stuck under his feet constantly and looks very unfit, which he has no right to be for a.24 year old.

Most likely about the stoomp

What Windass gives us is something a lot more clinical, completely exemplified by his goal. Perfect control, turn and slick finish hitting it hard and low. So many times we get into good positions to shoot and the ball is scuffed, dragged or smashed wildly in row z. Luongo is an excellent box to box midfielder, so many great tackles - a Rolls Royce at this level. As others have said, it's just whether he can stay fit put a run of games together.

We have a few players who look like their confidence is completely shot, and are better players than what we are seeing. I think Johnson is one of them. Look at Lewis Wing - when we played Rotherham, Paul Warne had him dictating play like Iniesta. Now he can barely complete a pass. I just can't accept that these players are suddenly cr*p, useless, worst to ever put on the shirt etc etc. The manager and coaching staff play a huge part in these players decline in form, as the players look seriously unfit, lack sharpness and guile, and don't seem to have a clue where to play a pass to. The bigger issues with the club as a whole not having an kind of clear plan on how to progress is a conversation to long to be had on owlstalk, but I believe this toxic level of negativity at in the club seeps into the squad and makes capable players (certainly in this league) look like they simply aren't professional footballers.

I'm not opposed to him leaving as I think he's been inconsistent at best for a few years now, and appears to have always lacked leadership - what sticks in my throat is that yet again it's a player walking away for nothing.

I've still not calmed down from that free kick in the last minute against Forest. His stats for most sliced/shanked/uncleanly hit shots must be top of the table. I'm pretty sure he wears a pair of painted house bricks for football boots.

Did I just see Reach actually skin someone or was I hallucinating?

That'll be Tom Lees winning this week's red card bingo then. In the showers by the hour mark I reckon.

Valid point. He looked better with players like Hooper, Wallace, FF, Lopez (remember him?), as despite having their own shortcomings, they had much better close control, footballing brains and the ability to play in little pockets of space with one two's and triangles.

I was just starting to calm down, then I come on here and you tell me this. If I was a cartoon character I would have steam coming out of my ears right now.

Mate, don't talk about that Derby game, just don't go there.

I would question the timing and choice of his subs possibly, but he just has such a poor squad to select from I'm not sure what he can do. Such poor footballing brains, lack of technical ability and pace, right across the board. Not a great combo.

A 23 year old Dutch centre back who is highly rated and ends up going for £4m (or thereabouts) can definitely command £20k. Stevie May was apparently on £15k, and cost less than JVA. Tom Lees, as someone else mentioned, is on anywhere between £25k to £27.5k, depending which stats site you check. He got the improved deal just before the FF scandal at Norwich. Imo Lees hasnt been the same player since then. But regarding JVA, if you're his agent and you're comparing him to Tom Lees and other players on big deals at the time (David Jones and George Boyd were supposedly on £30k+), you would be asking for £20k for a young, highly rated centre back who is worth paying several million for. Especially after the buying club has looked at over 200 centre backs and decided on you...

With the layout of transfer fees and wages, and managing to get to a point (yet again) where we will end up with no transfer fee whatsover for these 2 really sticks in my throat. I hope at some point we get an owner and management team under them that can learn from the awful business we have done over the last 4/5 years (and arguably long before) and get a structure and philosophy in place where we sign players and sell at the right time with a profit to reinvest and build. Brentford, Peterbrough, Yoonited' all show how it can be done. It's nearly impossible to articulate how far away we are from that point at the moment. Apart from that, everything's great.

Only thing about comparing him to players in the fifth tier of English football is that he isnt playing in the fifth tier of English football, he is in a highly competitive league with multi million pound players. If you put him in the fifth tier he would probably stand out head and shoulders above the rest with skill and pace etc. I guess the point being that we've seen a lot of players who are world beaters in league 1/2 or the SPL, then look way out of their depth in the championship. Granted he hasn't looked anything special so far, and I would have subbed him for fletch last night instead of FF (unless he's being saved for the weekend), but like others have said, he might need a few more games to adapt to the pace of the championship.

None mate, we seem especially crap at finding raw young talent and turning them into quality, consistent players and turning a profit. The comparison was more that other clubs seem to do it - Peterborough, Leeds, United, Brentford maybe. I need to cling onto the deluded, naive, blind hope that we can do it at some point as well.

Leicester signed Riyad Mahrez from the French 2nd division for £400k. Similar to Knockaert. Every so often a gem is unearthed from an obscure league. This kid could be a success or complete failure at Wednesday, but the type of signing we are now in the market for is unlikely to be a household name. Any signing we make who you've heard of is likely to either be a crock or over the hill (see George Boyd). We might already have Reach, Harris and Murphy, but they are inconsistent and have a limited skill set. If this new kid is rapid and skillful, but a bit mardy - I'll take that if it gives us a bit of an x factor when the game has slowed to a snails pace and we are lumping hail mary passes to whichever number 9 is playing.

Love the guy, and to be honest I prefer him to Lees. He just seems to have more presence as a player, character and leader. That's not slating Lees btw, who on his day is immense, but I think needs a leader next to him to perform at his best. Borner and Iorfa at CB for me. It's been said on here before, but everything else aside, Bruce needs some credit for his signings. Borner, Harris, Luongo for nothing, and of course Iorfa who cost I'm pretty sure the same fee we paid for Peter Atherton about 3 decades ago.

#daretodave #eatsleepdaverepeat

As another poster said, we have been mediocre, or at many times worse than mediocre for a couple of decades. The club has had well publicised issues recently with ffp, the stadium 'sale' and compliance issues. DC might have had other management targets which would be considered higher profile or more ambitious, but if they knock us back because we're not as attractive a proposition as some fans think we should be - then he has to look elsewhere at managers who aren't first choice. We could do worse than Monk, and whilst he has had a few clubs and sackings recently, at least he is still young from a more modern era of manager, whilst also having experience in the champ and prem. Honestly, I would have preferred the Cowleys, but I'm glad we've not got a dinosaur like pulis with outdated tactics and philosophies.

Bullen has been the consistent link between the players and management for some time. He has become a bit of a 'Mr Swfc'. Forgetting for a moment that he isn't the right man for the permanent job, and as much as I like him I firmly believe he isn't quite up to the task, I wouldnt want to give it him because when he eventually gets sacked, he leaves the club completely and we lose a staff member who has ingrained himself with the club and fans in a positive way. Keep him as coach, and caretaker manager when required, but don't set him up to fail and leave the club by making him the permanent manager.

Exactly. Leeds fan said same to me when we signed Tom Lees. I'll reserve judgement until I see him, if he ever arrives for his medical that is. Sometimes it just doesn't work at certain clubs. If he's fast, young(ish) and can move us up the pitch quicker than George Boyd, than that will do me. On a season's loan, it's low risk if he doesnt work out. At least we're not stuck with an ageing has-been on a huge salary for 2 or 3 years as per our previous approach to transfers.

Love it when Brian Laws can't quite think of the word he's looking for. "His first touch was...explicit".

Because of our finances and recent league position finishes, the market we are currently shopping in, imo, means we are limited to: 1) Young players in early to mid 20's that have had a good season or 2 at a lower league but are unknown at championship level, or young players that were once promising at a higher level but have lost their way due to injury or form (or both). 2) Older players who have been playing at a half decent level but are close to being over the hill and are released. 3) Unknown quantities from foreign leagues e.g Julian Borner. We are seemingly not in a position to buy the next big thing or splash on a player at a good age, in good form and with championship experience, so it should come as no surprise that we are looking at players like McEachran (once touted as the future of England's Centre mid). We need to be savvy in our dealings and we may have more misses than hits, but at least the players we are getting in more recently are still young and will not command huge wages (and at last we are signing some young pacy wide players). JM fits the bill for the market we have to shop in at this moment in time.