cerebus

To be fair, people often face punishment for stuff they've done, even if they haven't received a criminal conviction. David Goodwillie was never criminally convicted. He still had to pay out $100,000 in compensation in a civil case. This is because the standard of evidence is different. For criminal convictions its 'beyond reasonable doubt'. For civil cases its lower. So its not a crazy position to refuse to employ someone even if the evidence them isnt strong enough to get a criminal conviction. For example, I'm not sure I'd be hiring Mr. Schultz as a babysitter any time soon. Off topic, but personhood laws for unborn children arn't without their costs. See for example https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-woman-sought-abortion-court-order-leave-state-rcna129087

Ah well, it's the fate of many artists to be misunderstood in their own time. Sorry you didn't like it. Enjoy the looooooooooooooooong weekend

Aha, perhaps you missed the (dangerously subtle) nod towards Magical Realism, evoked not only be this line, but also by the evocation of the quasi-mythical John Beswetheric? I felt that the analogy of "football as metafiction" was rather charming

Look again. Perhaps you missed some of the subtleties first time through?

Happy Easter, Owl folk I've somehow got involved in a brand new venture that may change the way you think about Sheffield Wednesday, football, and your very place in the universe. http://www.footballfancast.com/2012/04/league-one/after-15-years-of-gloom-at-hillsborough-could-the-glory-days-finally-be-on-their-way-back Sure, it may just look like a bright and breezy fan's view of an upcoming game - long on enthusiasm, but perhaps slightly short on killer insight. But look deeper. Read between the lines. What you find may rock to your very core. It may not be comfortable: the truth rarely is. But at least you will have your eyes opened. FootballFanCast. Unlocking the mysteries of the universe, one football league club at a time

because of The Incident

It has resulted in a league table where the gap between each of the top 8 clubs is exactly 1 point. Which is nice.

I know its easy to be wise after the event, but is there a good reason why Mellor has been frozen out for the past few months? He's STILL our top scorer. I don't actually get to watch any games, so maybe he spends the rest of the time ineptly clogging around like a particularly graceless elephant, but on the face of it it seems like a strange decision.

No, but from what I hear your granddaughter is quite offensive

I got a bit upset at the socks bit.

And also the fact that you arn't in any meaningful way discriminated against because you are fat, can't dance or Northern. Whereas there is evidence in this thread that Gypsies are considered less employable, are more likely to be criminals, and LESS likely to pay their taxis. To me, that's the dividing line. Of course no-one wants to live in a society in which you can't insult anyone for fear of hurting their feelings. But I do get worried when we start using racial/cultural/whatever insults related to a certain group, claim 'it's just a bit of fun', but in fact think that these groups ARE inferior in some ways! Basically, I want it both ways: I want to be able to keep on being anti-French AND be allowed to scream RACIST! whenever I think things go too far.

Yes, I'd say your view on them for generally not being law abiding was different. And the fact that its the view of virtually everyone doesn't make it better. It sounds from what you say that (for example) other things being equal you're less likely to give a job to a candidate that you thought of as a gypsy than one that wasn't. Fecking hell, I would do the same if I thought that they'd be more likely to nick stuff off me. I really don't think that it is the same think for us and our reputation for having sh*t food and bad teeth. Well, unless you are a chef or a toothbrush model, I suppose.

See, this is the problem. The difference between calling someone Scottish, Ginger, Lanky, etc, and calling them a gypsy, is that you are not going to have someone seriously claiming that "Anyone who believes gingers are in the main honest law abiding tax payers is living in cloud cuckoo land." I'd love it was true that basically everyone got on with everyone, and so we could have chants about gypsies, pakistanis, etc and it WAS just the same as chanting about fatties, or gingers. But it isn't. Because there are clearly a lot of people on here that DO have a real problem with some of these groups. And, as a self styled member of the PC brigade, then the reason that these chants get to me is that, when the chanters may claim that they are just having a bit of fun, and that it's all good banter, really they have views like Triplej. And if you do have views like this, then I honestly have no idea whether you are right or wrong - I don't have any stats on tax payments from different communities. But if you really do hate any section of society, I'm not sure that chanting about it at a football match is the best way to vent these feelings.

I think all of the co-commentators on ESPN are ex-wednesday - Efan Ekoku, John Harkes and Robbie Mustoe. Well, and Allie McCoist, but 3 from 4 is a sure sign of Wednesday dominance.

Although you could argue that a team picked from the current squad and the promotion squad would be Grant Bruce Purse Wood Heckingbottom McGoven Miller Whelen Brunt McClean Tudguy I.e. split roughly half and half. And that squad got promoted by the skin of its teeth. Then again, it did have turner in charge of it. This thread has made me excited, then nervous, then excited again

Off to bed now.. I think I have managed to get smashed enough to sleep. Match is at 8.00am New York time. Good luck ladies and gentleman. See you on the other side.

I've been wrestling with this - its not listed on any of the usual haunts (Nevada Smiths, Woodwork) etc. I'm not sure I can cope with the idea of listening to the game on WW. I may just have to go and hide in the garden for the duration.

Balls! I've been trying to set up a UK proxy server from NYC for ages and have yet to manage it. I have even tried befriending geeks. Does anyone know whether it is being shown in the US on any form of standard TV?

I was there n'all that day. It was champion. Met up with a bloke from Oughtibridge who was there for fleet week with HMS Nottingham. Ended up taking a bunch of sailors on a drunken tour of the city, bellowing the wednesday score at baffled New Yorkers. Happy daysI'll be in Nevada Smiths for the derby as well, though only under sufference. Its a pretty unpleasant dive most of the time.