Owl.1867

Whilst not mathematically out of it, the other thing to bear in mind with Rangers is how much has to happen for them to win the title. They're not even third yet, first of all, but let's assume they don't lose their game in hand and so go above Hibs. If they were five points behind Celtic at this stage, with Celtic top, very few would be saying they were going to win the title. As it is, they're five points behind Celtic, but twelve (nine at best when game in hand played) behind Hearts. I don't carry the same optimism about Hearts that some do, but let's be honest, this is not last season's Aberdeen. Any regression to the mean still may be enough for them to win the title if Celtic don't sort themselves out, such is the advantage that Hearts have built up early and the generally decent performances. Rangers need to overcome those deficits on two teams, meaning that they need to be just about perfect from here until the end of their season. So far, Röhl has done what he did at Wednesday; be pretty consistent in winning the games that they should, but look totally off the pace against sides that are better. Aside from the weird hold we seemed to have on West Brom, he showed no indication of being able to figure out how to beat the better sides. To make up the gap, whilst overtaking three teams, Rangers will need to not only not slip up against the lower teams, but also beat Celtic and Hearts. Probably every time remaining.

The police have already confirmed that it was the MTA hooligans that were the reason for the ban. But you carry on. British values, by the way. Put the dog whistle away and just say what you mean.

Because of the political storm whipped up through irresponsible comments made by members of government, including the PM. People will look back on this time and wonder what on earth had gone wrong with a country that meant it decided to throw so much weight behind a foreign country as it carried out a genocide thousands of miles away.

"Significant Hoolinganism" within MTA fanbase is reason for ban - West Midlands Police Flies in the face of what many were trying to tell us in here. I guess Sky News and WMP must be part of the "leftist agenda" or whatever you call it now. Beggars belief.

Martin O'Neil rolling back the decades.

It's taken, what, a matter of hours for the facade to drop from pig fans. It must have been killing them having to appear gracious towards our plight these last few months.

Because they're trying to go with the narrative that the spineless twit in Number 10 has given them. They weren't going to be getting any tickets, but the propaganda drive is in full force now.

The scholarly consensus is strongly, firmly on the side that this is genocide. Denying it is now akin to being a "scientist" who claims that there is no such thing as man made global warming. One day, everyone will have been against this. Unfortunately for the deniers, everything is recorded now. Every pathetic attempt to stand up for the perpetrators, every bit of genocide denial, is recorded for all to see in future.

The overwhelming majority of those who would have traveled have participated actively in a genocide, or in the establishment of illegal settlements in the West Bank. The legal precedent has been set that "just following orders" is not a defence. Considering it will be mostly young men, coming from a country with active conscription, and the identity that the club and fanbase builds around itself, it is almost certain that within that traveling support would be people who in recent months have been carrying out a genocide. Again, this is based in international legal decisions and definitions; it is a genocide. They're not scared for their safety, they want there to be trouble, but I'd be happy living somewhere that people like that are scared for their safety. Let's not forget who political leaders are climbing over each other to defend here.

The point is that it's another European fixture at which away fans are being banned by the host authorities due to anticipated behaviour of the visiting fans. But, you knew that.

No English club would ever... But yes, there does seem to be a resurgence of some of the worst elements. However, it's worth noting that on the whole, English and German fanbases will still have normal match going fans. The culture is different at some of the French and Italian clubs, and across Eastern Europe and yes, in Israel. Central and Northern Europe (including the UK) have a different football culture right now to southern and Eastern Europe (including Israel).

He's looked desperate here to be honest. They turned him down, then having been rejected by Muscat he's still right there for them.

Difficult, I know, but just removing the actual issue at the core of this for a moment: Is no one else embarrassed at how both sides of the house prostrate themselves at the feet of a foreign power? A country which is beyond even the mildest criticism, with MPs fighting to show who can be most loyal to them. Considering how empty the house usually is, the presence of so many there to discuss this raises...questions. Imagine if MPs were there to discuss allowing Napoli or Red Star Belgrade ultras, all falling over themselves to defend the masked men who have already run riot across Europe and had their own derby cancelled. It simply wouldn't happen. Also, speaking of Napoli, there will be no Frankfurt fans at that game, and yet no one seems to be speaking up for them. Especially as this involves a temporary pause of free movement through the EU. Funny that most of those here advocating for Israeli fans, were a decade ago so worried about the apparent inability to control borders that they committed an act of self sabotage on their own country.

It's also about what the incentive is. Someone else in the thread mentioned about how some people never get the hang of it, whether physically or mentally. Unless there is another person in that same space and also physically comparable, the organisers need to do the hard work of saying "look, you can train these weeks, feel good in your body, get fitter, keep trying, but we are simply not putting you in the ring". Unfortunately, they are paid to put people in the ring for a paid-for experience. A proper trainer would continue telling someone that they are not ready, because they are incentivised not to be known as irresponsible, or just a bad trainer.

Tel Aviv derby cancelled following riots. I can't believe this level of antisemitism from *checks notes* the Israeli police.

This is why I hate these white collar boxing type things, including when it's the ones like this with celebrities or former sportsmen. The people running them are stupidly irresponsible. From the first seconds, whilst both are all over the place, it was clear that these two should not have been in the same ring. Forget who they are/were; these two individuals were so clearly mismatched that it shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I might not like Kenny, and wanted to open this and have a laugh, but this is the kind of thing that makes these events so dangerous, because they make these terrible matchmaking decisions.

The famously non-violent and pacifist British. We really are through the looking glass these last few years.

I saw somewhere that Uzbekistan likely would have qualified under the old rules anyway? They'll get grouped in, but are actually just in a better place than they have been before. Bale turning up would be quite something, I wouldn't even put it past Weah, but if Best shows up I think I'll have a heart attack.

Are people just willingly being ignorant? This is not like Millwall, Leeds, Cardiff etc rolling into town. To be honest, it's not even like the Old Firm. These lot don't come in as a normal bunch of fans who have a hardcore support amongst them. The only fans they have, especially for away trips, are the ultras. Its not a "oh I'm missing out on taking my lad to see a traditional English ground and see our team play in Europe" situation. The only reason they travel is to antagonise and then start violence. People are picturing themselves getting the news that Wednesday have had away fans banned from a fixture and how they'd feel, but it's nothing like that. The culture of following this team is not the same match day experience we are accustomed to.

I literally gave you a source, from Israel, which gives an overview of how bad their fans are, in comparison to other Israeli teams. As in, there is a base level of anti-Arab racism within Israeli football and they are worse than the standard seen there. Stop for a minute and think about how bad that makes them. You say you're no expert, well you have a starting point from which to go and educate yourself some more. You have no intention of discussing facts and evidence.

Yep, agreed. I have no love for the police generally, much less WMP as a force, but they're in an unwinnable position here. They would be getting it either way.

Because you're coming in and claiming to just be asking for sources, and when a source from within Israel, written by Israelis, is provided you cry about it and dismiss it, as expected. You refuse to acknowledge the videos of their fans marching through Amsterdam the day before the game, including chanting around schools. Its not up to me to hold your hand through this, especially seeing as you're not actually here for an adult debate, rather to deflect away from the elephant which is currently stampeding all over the room.

There were videos shared that night, long before media picked it up, showing them singing death to arabs and celebrating that there were no kids left in gaza to go to school. Glad to know you're here spouting off and "just asking for sources" on something you admit to having no knowledge of. So, go hard. Beitar Jerusalem, by the way, are somehow even worse. They are an openly race-based club. Being second to them does not mean that MTA are "better". That source is from within Israel, by the way.

This is a very biased view of it. The MTA fans en masse ran riot. This was the day before the game, not even the day of it. They then faced retribution from Dutch fans (as someone else has mentioned, Dutch football really took to the old football casual reputation English fans used to have). Neither of these things are right, but the idea that a bunch of innocent MTA fans were randomly attacked is so far wide of the mark. We are lucky that going to football in England is largely safe now, but Israel is one of the countries where its not the same family-friendly activity that we have become used to. Especially for a club with their reputation - and, this cannot be stated too much - within their own country, the traveling fans are almost all part of their racist and violent ultras group.

The fact that they are clamouring for Muscat is hilarious. I'm not saying he won't be good, perhaps he will be, but the lengths the club are going to and the desperation of their fanbase to have him is so far removed from any evidence of what he's done. He's succeeding when following on from well placed foundations, but struggled otherwise. No one can claim he's walking in on solid foundations now. Following A-League media and fan conversation whilst here in NZ also makes me laugh. They massively, massively overestimate any Aussie player or manager, in such a bizarre way. In the summer, with a few Aussies joining Championship clubs, they were all insistent that they should not only be at PL clubs, but top ones at that.